Logistico last player advantage

[Cwali]

Here comments and advices by the author of Logistico about the issues which were discussed in Essen and in this forum:

My first advice: don't theorise too much in the first rounds. The rules are the same in each game round, but Logistico has a kind of start-phase, middle-phase and endphase. The impressions in the start-phase can change much during the rest of the game.

Sometimes players worried about a start-player-advantage.
In the score-statistics I don't see that. In many matches all players have the lead in Logi some time and, more important, the endscores are often very close. The closest match had 3 Logi differense between the first and last (fourth) player (while the number of Logi per player differed very much a few rounds earlier).

The start-player can often win the most Logi in the first turns. But taking the most profit in the first turns isn't automatically the best choice for the longer term. I self look at my bonuscards and the positions of the goods and the demand-discs to see in which areas I want to have my boat and truck later when the income becomes higher.

Later in the game it can be a big advantage to choose later than other players.
Examples of last player(s) advantages:
- In one match with the prototype 2 players could deliver the same type of good (colour) in the last 2 rounds, both on the 2 remaining demand-discs for that type of good. One player had to choose a direction first. If he delivered in one turn, the profit was small, and then the other player could maximize his profit in 2 turns towards the other demand-disc. If the first player shoosed a direction and moved half of the path in that direction, then the other player could go in the same direction and deliver direct for small profit, with the effect that the first player could not deliver his good next turn and only had costs. In this match this brought the victory to the later player in the player-order.
- It happened several times that a later player could get the grey income by passing a field because an earlier player delivered in the same round, or that an earlier player could not get those points because a later player delivered later in that round.
- The last player(s) have the most influense on deciding in which round the match ends, and have the best view during their moves on which round will be the last. That can be about more Logi than the maximum profit in the first turns.
I remember one match where a player moved his truck one turn too late to the airfield and so missed a delivery by boat for 28 Logi (because of bonuscard) (what would have been the winning move), because later players made the number of gamerounds too short for this.

The rules advice to play first a match by 2, 3 or 4 players. With 5 players the competition is hard and your influense less high. I doubted about making the game for only 2-4 players, but the matches with 5 players were interesting, fun and tense too and in several 5-player-matches all players had theories at the end about where an other move could have lead to victory. So I choosed to do the game for 2-5 players, in all cases the same rules and material. In case of 5 players I would like one extra type of goods (colour) and a small extra island. (Such an extension is one of the many plans for the future.)

In the matches in the booth in Essen beautifull transport-combinations were overlooked. The planning stayed more short-term and the financial situations of the players didn't differ so much as I was used to in the prototype halfway matches, as far as I've seen in the matches in the booth. That doesn't hurt the game really but I think it will become more interesting when you play it at home in a more relaxed admosphere.

All luck-factors in Logistico happen in the set-up of the game.
That worried players sometimes too, but I think you have enough time in the game to get good chances.

Several players had the idea of putting a truck in a plane or boat.
That was tried in the prototype and is fun when you play the game once, but the interesting planning in the game is possible because possibilities for players become less symetric during the game. When players can 'fly with their truck', then the possibilities become more symetrical and then the planning makes not much sense. And it takes away a part of the game-idea of the different means of transport with their powers and weaknesses.

Trade between players is suggested a few times in Essen.
That's tried with the prototype too. That trade is well possible, but only fun if you hold your money secret untill the end. So instead of the money track you can use real coins. In the prototype players started with ca. 0,40 Euro and you won with ca. 0,70 Euro. You must make a set of trade-rules at the start, which tells what players must agree about before an agreement counts. The problems you will see then in making and excecuting tranport-agreements fit good to the transport-theme. (The payments and incomes each turn will not work so smooth as with the money track! It reminded me to Acquire.)

Here 3 possibilities for who still thinks that there is a big player-order-advantage (or for who wants to minimize the luck at the start (see point 3.):
1. Changing start-player clockwise after each complete gameround.
Disadvantages: That makes that you don't know anymore that each vehicle on the board has one turn before it is a turn for your vehicle again. You then must look in every turn which other vehicles move 0, 1 and 2 turns before your vehicle moves again. And in case of transfers of goods in your transport that becomes much more complex. Some players take more time with this rule, other players feel that it is unfair when opponents suddenly hurt their plans because of 2 turns by a vehicle of an opponent before you get a turn with your vehicle again. The game takes longer and players have the feeling at the end that the game is difficult. My try with this rule was horrable. (By mistake the game was explained some times in this way in the booth in Essen on thursday.)
2. Holding the same start-player and doing the turns for the boats clockwise but for the planes and trucks counterclockwise. In this way you still know that each vehicle has one turn before you can move your vehicle again. But it makes your planning a little more complicated. When you pick up a good by boat to bring to an airfield to let your plane deliver it on an airfield on an other island, the later boat can pick-up a good of the same type by boat and deliver it earlier than you by plane ...
3. Doing the whole set-up and draw a start-player-colour and give the CHAIRS around the table a player-colour. Give each player 3 bonus-cards. Now players bid on the first choice to take a seat (chair and player-colour). Your bid you distract from your 40 Logi.
For this the players must know the game first. And you are forced to think at the start of the game about all player-colour situations. I like to have a quick and easy start and to think deeper later in the game.

So I don't advice to try any of these possibilities!

Have fun with Logistico!
Corné

[Cwali]

Me again. ;-)

The Logistico-rulebook tells that new players can better play Logistico as 2-, 3- or 4-player-game first. For if you start with 5 players anyway, that should give a hint, but it seems like that remark makes no impression at all. In Essen I heared many players who played Logistico in the evenings but always with 5 players as far as I know. In fact I should have expected that that would happen. The good experiences in case of 5 players when players knew the game, made me uncarefull.
So, let me emphasize now: Play a 2-, 3- or 4-player-match first!

Groeten,
Cwali-helpdesk