Carthagena - Regelfrage

[Roman]

Hi,
für alle Messegeschädigten, die Carthagena gespielt oder gekauft haben, hätte ich eine Quizfrage parat:
Was macht man, wenn man Handkarten bräuchte, aber keine Möglichkeiten hat, entsprechend der Regel Spielfiguren im Fluchtweg auf ein Feld mit anderen Figuren zurückzuziehen?
Wir hatten die Situation, dass von einem Spieler nur Figuren entweder im Boot waren oder soweit am Anfang, dass ein Zurückziehen auf andere Figuren nicht möglich war. Darf man Figuren aus dem Boot zurückziehen? Darf man Figuren wieder ganz aus dem Spiel zurückziehen, und, wenn ja, bekommt man dafür eine oder zwei Karten? Eine ist dämlich, da man nur das bekommt, was man braucht, um die Figur wieder einzusetzen. Zwei Karten sind zuviel, weil sonst jeder zu Beginn des Spiels eine Figur einsetzt, zurückzieht, und dann Karten kassiert.
Wir haben uns in unserer Runde darauf geeinigt, dass man aus dem Boot zurückzieht - nur die Regel schweigt da wirklich gekonnt. Gibt's bessere Vorschläge, haben wir was überlesen, oder was denkt Ihr generell?
Ciao,
Roman

[Carsten Wesel]

Wie wäre es, erst mit irgendeiner Figur (vorzugsweise aus einer 3er-Gruppe) nach vorne zu ziehen und dann genau besagte Figur wieder zurück. Haben wir gemacht und hat prima geklappt - der Mensch am Stand hat sogar gesagt, daß er noch nie so viele 3-er-Gruppen gesehen hat.
Gruß Carsten (gekauft)

[Roman]

Hi,
>Wie wäre es, erst mit irgendeiner Figur (vorzugsweise aus einer 3er-Gruppe)
nach vorne zu ziehen und dann genau besagte Figur wieder zurück. Haben
wir gemacht und hat prima geklappt - der Mensch am Stand hat sogar
gesagt, daß er noch nie so viele 3-er-Gruppen gesehen hat.<
Ja, klar - nur um diesen Fall ging es ja nicht, sondern z.B. um folgendes konkretes Beispiel:
5 Figuren im Boot, 1 Figur steht am Anfang des Tunnels, keine Figur mehr dahinter - wie kommt man nun an Karten?
Ciao,
Roman
Gruß Carsten (gekauft)

[Bernhard Kläui]

Wir hatten diese Situation beim Probespiel am Stand in Essen. Auf meine Frage wurde uns erklärt, dass man darauf achten muss, dass diese Situation nicht eintritt, da man sonst ausscheidet. Man muss sich also gut überlegen, mit welcher Figur man wann und wie zieht.

[leo Colovini]

I'm not sure to have understood the problem because my German is very bad (even worst than my bad English). Anyway if you have nomore cards in your hand, 5 pirates on the boat and the last one in the last position, you could have effectively the problem to move. This problem is not provided for in the rules: my mistake.
Anyway, the solution is the following:
it is allowed to move backward (gaining cards) even a pirate who is yet in the boat.
On the other hand, when players will begin to play better, it really difficult that this kind of problem will occur.

[Roman]

Hello Leo,
>I'm not sure to have understood the problem because my German is very bad
(even worst than my bad English).<
You've understood the problem perfectly.
>Anyway if you have nomore cards in your
hand, 5 pirates on the boat and the last one in the last position, you could have effectively the problem to move. This problem is not provided for in the rules: my mistake.<
I thought there was something missing ;-)
>Anyway, the solution is the following:
it is allowed to move backward (gaining cards) even a pirate who is yet in the boat.<
This is exactly the way we have played it, thanks a lot for confirming us. Yet we were wondering if there'd any sense in allowing to move a pirate out of the tunnel, too. But we couldn't figure how much cards to give somebody for that, so we only played the "out of the boat"-variant, which you confirmed to be right.
>On the other hand, when players will begin to play better, it really difficult that this kind of problem will occur.<
Surely everyone will want to avoid such a situation, but we've just played the game three times by now, so we're far from perfect playing :)
Thanks a lot for information, I guess a lot of people will have or have had this problem, so it's clear now what to do.
Bye,
Roman

[leo colovini]

>Thanks a lot for information, I guess a lot of people >will have or have had this problem, so it's clear now >what to do.
Thanks a lot to you for your question. I guess too that a lot of people will have this problem, that means that a loto of people had played the game!
Nice dice (or, in this case, nice cards!)

[Bernhard Kläui]

As you can read in my mail I got a different answer in Essen (eliminated if last positioned and no cards).I must say that I would prefer this alternative because it requires more tactical thinking than if one has the possibility to take one person from the boat and go back in order to fetch cards. Anyhow, since this is not written in the rules, players may agree on their own ones before starting the game.

[Leo Colovini]

You are right. When I was asked about this problem, my first reaction was to answer that if a player was in that dreadful position it was eliminated. The problem in fact was a surprise for me, in all our tests this situation never occurred! Then I realised that this situation could occurred when players are completely unexpert. So I prefer the new solution (that is not specifically provided by the rules but on the other hand it is neither forbidden). If a player will be in this situation, the winner will be surely another player, to move backwards from the boat is simply a possibility to continue to play.
Anyway I think that this situation will occur nomore when players will be a little more expert.

[Roman]

Hi Leo,
>If a player
will be in this situation, the winner will be surely another player, to move
backwards from the boat is simply a possibility to continue to play.<
I must confess that I was the fool who had 5 pirates in the boat and one behind. In fact, I managed to win the game despite this with your optional rule - it is very well possible.
>Anyway I think that this situation will occur nomore when players will be a little more expert.<
I guess so, but I wonder why this situation occured in my second game, and you did not notice it at all.
Ciao,
Roman

[Leo Colovini]

Hy Roman
>I must confess that I was the fool who had 5 pirates >in the boat and one behind. In fact, I managed to win >the game despite this with your optional rule - it is >very well possible.
.....Oppps. In any case if you was in this situation you made some mistakes.
>I guess so, but I wonder why this situation occured >in my second game, and you did not notice it at all.
Probably you need more than one game. In any case in my opinion it is generally (but not always) better to move the most rear pirates rather than the most advance. Following this basic strategy it is really difficult that this situation occur.
Ciao,
Leo

[Roman]

Hi Leo,
>I must confess that I was the fool who had 5 pirates in the boat and one behind. In fact, I managed to win the game despite this with your optional rule - it is very well possible.<
.....Oppps. In any case if you was in this situation you made some mistakes.
Surely, I guess nobody who knows gameplay better will dare to leave one pirate behind, the risk of losing ground to the leading ones and not being able to travel efficiently is too high.
>I guess so, but I wonder why this situation occured in my second game, and you did not notice it at all.
>Probably you need more than one game. In any case in my opinion it is generally (but not always) better to move the most rear pirates rather than the most advance. Following this basic strategy it is really difficult that this situation occur.<
I agree, but this situation is almost sure to happen when several unexperienced players play this game for the first few times. So an optional rule or advice to avoid this situation within the game-rules would have made things clearer for new players. It surely is a beginner's fault nevertheless.
ciao,
Roman